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CORDIScovery podcast- Episode #25 - Soil quality and food security
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:16:03
Abigail Acton
This is CORDIScovery.
00:00:16:05 - 00:00:44:02
Abigail Acton
Hello and welcome to this episode of CORDIScovery With me, Abigail Acton. From Satellites observing the Earth to Roots and the microbes that surround them. Today we're looking at soil and how our food security depends on its health. Soil is so much more than the dirt beneath our feet. It's a fragile resource which is degraded in many parts of the world and the rapidly growing global population's demand for food, fiber and soil derived materials is ramping up the pressure.
00:00:44:04 - 00:01:11:09
Abigail Acton
How can we feed people while rethinking our dependance on chemical fertilizers? Can we process wastewater in a way that can benefit farmers and boost crop yields? And what can the structure of a plant's roots tell us about what's going on underground? Can that knowledge lead to a reduction in the need for nitrogen based fertilizers? How can remote sensing and earth observation data help us to improve our use of natural resources to improve food security?
00:01:11:11 - 00:01:34:04
Abigail Acton
Today's crop of guests has been funded by the Horizon 2020 program. They are here to help us understand how waste, fertilizer, soil protection and remote monitoring all interconnect. A researcher at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, Tania Galindo. Castaneda's focus is on how the root anatomy and architecture of maize affects the impact that microbes in the soil have on the plant.
00:01:34:05 - 00:01:34:22
Abigail Acton
Hello, Tanya.
00:01:34:24 - 00:01:38:09
Tania Galindo
Hello, Abigail and everyone. Thanks for this invitation.
00:01:38:11 - 00:01:58:13
Abigail Acton
You're very welcome. Frank Rogalla is director of innovation at Aqualia, a private provider of water services supplying 45 million people in 17 countries. His focus is on not wasting one drop of water, to which end, he fuels his call with waste water. Frank is interested in recovering fertilizers to grow food and avoid pollution. Welcome, Frank.
00:01:58:15 - 00:01:59:23
Frank Rogalla
Abigail. Hello.
00:02:00:00 - 00:02:13:06
Abigail Acton
Juan Suarez is looking at how to make the most of Earth observation technologies, such as satellite imagery to improve food security and sustainable development. Juan is a senior manager at the Spanish company GMV. Welcome, Juan.
00:02:13:11 - 00:02:16:09
Juan Suarez
Hello again, everyone.
00:02:16:11 - 00:02:34:20
Abigail Acton
This is what causes a plant to flourish. Once planted out of the lab and into a field. Tanya, your ROOTPHENOBIOME project looked at maize and how the roots interact with the community of microbes in the soil. I know that you're interested in bio fertilizers. What does that word mean exactly? And why are they important? Do you feel.
00:02:35:01 - 00:02:58:20
Tania Galindo
Okay, so bio fertilizers, are preparations containing living microbial sense which make nutrients available to plants. They are important because they are profiling as an alternative to chemical fertilization in agricultural fields. Therefore, their use is being researched actively right now.
00:02:59:00 - 00:03:01:12
Abigail Acton
All these used already in other countries?
00:03:01:16 - 00:03:23:22
Tania Galindo
Yes, they have been in used for quite a while in South America, for example, in Brazil. They have a whole program by the government where they select microbes to produce these bio fertilizers. And even there they have proposed that 25% of chemical fertilization can be replaced by these bio fertilizers.
00:03:23:24 - 00:03:28:00
Abigail Acton
And how does one decide what microbes are going to be helpful to the plant?
00:03:28:02 - 00:03:52:17
Tania Galindo
Well, microbes can in the case of nitrogen, for example, they can fix nitrogen, which is very abundant in the air. And they some of them not all or not all by fertilizers, but some by fertilizers or some microbes in the soil. They have their metabolic capability to obtain nitrogen from the air and make it available in in the form of ammonium to plants.
00:03:52:23 - 00:04:03:18
Abigail Acton
that's wonderful. So instead of adding this on externally as a compound in a fertilizer, in fact, we can actually just let the natural process do its work and provide the plants with the same nutrients that way.
00:04:03:19 - 00:04:18:02
Tania Galindo
Exactly. Yes, this can happen naturally, but we can also favor hydrates of this process by selecting specific strains that have improved capabilities to do this. For example, nitrogen fixation.
00:04:18:03 - 00:04:24:03
Abigail Acton
Fantastic. And while we're all doing that all the time right now, what's holding us up from actually using these more?
00:04:24:05 - 00:04:55:20
Tania Galindo
Yet the way fertilizers are produced and used is not so predictable. As with chemical fertilizers, for example, when they make a new nitrogen fertilization, they know that they will use these amount, for example, 100 kilos per hectare, and they will get a certain amount of grain in the case of maize. But for bio fertilizers we need to research much more to to have this kind of equivalences between what we apply and what we obtain.
00:04:55:22 - 00:05:06:24
Tania Galindo
So to ensure that the bio fertilizers work, we need more research and I think is just the stage in which the research is in most of the maize producing countries, for example.
00:05:07:02 - 00:05:28:14
Abigail Acton
And of course, this is what you're looking at. So one of the things that's interesting you is, is that the structure or the architecture of the root systems of maize has an impact on how these microbes respond to the plant. So can you tell me a little bit more about that? And perhaps also, is that one of the reasons why it seems to work quite well in laboratories and sometimes not quite so effectively in the field?
00:05:28:14 - 00:05:30:00
Abigail Acton
Tell me a little bit about that.
00:05:30:02 - 00:05:54:22
Tania Galindo
Yes, exactly. So one of the huge black boxes that we have in developing and using microbes in agriculture is trying to understand the biology of these microbes and how they connect and how they associate with their roots, because usually via fertilizers are produced in the lab, then they are tested also in the lab, then in the greenhouse, where the roots are not really growing in the way they will grow in the field.
00:05:54:24 - 00:06:26:02
Tania Galindo
So we don't know exactly how in the field these different shapes are fruit, like architectural or anatomical, which refers to the internal distribution of tissues. How these different characteristics interact with microbes in real conditions. So we need to understand better how these processes, how these architecture and anatomy influence microbes and I think this this could help make the link between what we do in the lab and in the bioreactor when they produce this at an industrial scale.
00:06:26:04 - 00:06:28:22
Tania Galindo
And what happens in the field.
00:06:28:24 - 00:06:44:07
Abigail Acton
Is it possible that some of the microbes are already present in the soil in the natural environment, are having a kind of a I presume they must have some sort of connection impact interaction with the microbes that are being taken out of laboratory scenarios to be used as fertilizers.
00:06:44:08 - 00:07:07:00
Tania Galindo
Yes, this is very likely possible. I think this we also need to understand, because when the plant starts growing, it creates some microbiome in the rhizosphere and in on the roots and inside the roots. And then we don't know if we apply an external microbe, if it will have any impact in the soil surrounding the rotary and on the plant.
00:07:07:02 - 00:07:27:14
Tania Galindo
So, yes, there are microbes that are already doing a lot of nutrient transformation for the plant. But if we include a next external microbe that we have selective by with our methods, yes, we do know what happens. This is also a part of the fact of the black box that we have in fertilizers.
00:07:27:16 - 00:07:49:12
Abigail Acton
It sounds like you have a a nice long path of research in front of you. A good, strong career in research in this area. But it's, you know, lots of interesting questions to answer. Absolutely. But obviously, it's very important because you are talking here about a way of boosting crop yields and in a way that actually has much less of a harsh environmental impact.
00:07:49:13 - 00:08:16:23
Tania Galindo
Yes, exactly. Because with the chemical fertilizers, we farmers to obtain the amounts of grain that they need to make it profitable or to improve their welfare, they need to apply excess of chemical fertilizers. Therefore, this is creating pollution and economic losses, of course. So, yes, it will be important to, as an alternative to make use of the biological research studies already in the soil.
00:08:17:04 - 00:08:36:15
Abigail Acton
Science that are targeted for a particular goal for Very interesting. Thank you very much. And I think also probably good for soil health, I would imagine, because you're not introducing a large amount of chemicals like nitrogen phosphates, etc., you are actually going with the communities that are already living in the soil. So I would imagine it's better for soil health, do you think?
00:08:36:15 - 00:09:09:03
Tania Galindo
Yes. When farmers supply chemical fertilizers in excess, they change the chemical balance of the soil and also it creates pollution, as I said, the nitrogen system. And sometimes if it is lost to the watersheds. So, yes, it's is better to have a reduction, at least in inputs, if this is possible. Yes. But something that I also wanted to say is that plants also have their adaptations to this.
00:09:09:03 - 00:09:32:24
Tania Galindo
And we do know how the already in place plant adaptation that they come with the genetics, with their plant breeding, with their seats are interacting with these microbes. So this is also a black box that we we need to sell plants and already have some adaptations to use, perhaps less available nutrients. And if we are applying micros, maybe we have synergies or trade out Sweden.
00:09:33:01 - 00:09:48:09
Abigail Acton
And if you were to project yourself into the future, shall we say ten years. So it's a little bit ahead, not massively ahead. Why would you like to see this technology that you're working on be? In other words, at what stage do you think we could imagine it would be in ten years time?
00:09:48:15 - 00:10:11:22
Tania Galindo
I would like to see a technology that is combining plant lettuce or cultivars with adapted routes to obtain nutrients more efficiently from the soil. So with the specific architectures and anatomies, but also with an opulent composed perhaps by a consortium of microbes or by certain strains, what.
00:10:11:22 - 00:10:13:09
Abigail Acton
Do you mean by an Oakland?
00:10:13:11 - 00:10:45:21
Tania Galindo
Inoculations are bacteria, bio fertilizers, let's say our pellets containing bacteria, living bacteria or fungi. That happens in this case to make nutrients more available. So we have to imagine not only plants that are selected because they have adapted routes, but also because they favor synergistic associations with soil microbes and that require less fertilization, less chemical fertilization, and therefore a reduction in environmental impact.
00:10:45:24 - 00:11:08:23
Abigail Acton
Excellent. Thank you. Well, I mean, we have to hope that it actually is something that we do see in the next ten years or so. That would be excellent. Thank you very, very much. That's super. Well, I'd like to stay on the subject of enriching the soil naturally or artificially. And I'm going to turn to Frank here because Frank, the Run4Life project focused on processing wastewater in the most effective way possible, including the recovery of nutrients that can be used as fertilizers.
00:11:09:00 - 00:11:32:01
Abigail Acton
So we've just been considering the idea of plants using the microbes in the soil to actually maximize the uptake of nutrients. But here we're actually thinking now about how if we do, while Tanya does her fantastic work, continue to need classical fertilizers, what are the best ways to get them? So what is the gap in the current way that we deal with wastewater that motivated you to try and innovate the process?
00:11:32:01 - 00:11:34:07
Abigail Acton
What was what was something that you felt was missing?
00:11:34:11 - 00:12:01:10
Frank Rogalla
Well, if you think about it today, the infrastructure we have, we use a lot of clean water to wash away our waste. And the waste is, in fact, the resource. There is a lot of fertilizer in urine and other human waste and also in kitchen waste. So we can recover nitrogen and phosphorus from the waste material instead of flushing it all down the drain to some wastewater treatment plant far away where it's very, very difficult to recover and all that with clean water.
00:12:01:10 - 00:12:11:17
Frank Rogalla
We at the same time waste the resource and contaminate the clean water that is drinking water that could be used much more efficiently if it wasn't just to transport waste.
00:12:11:19 - 00:12:29:12
Abigail Acton
I like the idea. We've talked about this obviously beforehand. I like the idea that you had about the notion of separating out wastewater rather like we separate our own sort of hard waste streams for recycling our plastic and our paper and our whatever. The idea that in fact that with wastewater, we should be separating it out more, more effectively as well.
00:12:29:14 - 00:12:53:14
Frank Rogalla
That that was the inspiration, obviously, in waste. In order to recycle it efficiently, you need to separate the glass and the paper and the plastic. And the same we can do with water. We can separate yellow water and groundwater and water and then reuse each resource the way it could easily be because the yellow water, 90% of the nitrogen that each person produces is concentrated in only one liter of urine or two per day.
00:12:53:16 - 00:13:13:04
Frank Rogalla
Instead of flushing it down with 200 liters of clean water as normal toilets do, we could recover this concentrated liquid fertilizer. And the same goes for great water, as easy to reuse as less contaminated. If we don't mix it all together and we can then reuse it to flush toilets, wash cars or whatever object that we have now.
00:13:13:08 - 00:13:23:22
Abigail Acton
So something that's much more targeted. After all, most of our infrastructure is is based on on technology that was pretty much exploited by the Romans. We haven't really gotten much more up to date, have we?
00:13:23:24 - 00:13:42:14
Frank Rogalla
Yeah. The Romans obviously invented that to to bring water from far away with aqueducts to the cities and then use it to flush out the waste as fast as possible into the cloaca maxima or whatever river was close by. And that was maybe sustainable when you had a few hundred or a thousand people, but not in a city of a million.
00:13:42:16 - 00:14:11:05
Frank Rogalla
And therefore we now pump all this waste out to a faraway place where it creates a new problem of contaminating wastewater and contaminating rivers and producing sludge that nobody wants. And we really wanted to avoid this and recover the nutrients at a place where they can be used inside of the households, where you can use the fertilizer for gardening or can reuse your water for washing locally rather than when you have it far away in a wastewater treatment plant.
00:14:11:07 - 00:14:24:07
Abigail Acton
Indeed. And so let's explore the notion of the fertilizers, because we're interested today in soil, soil, health, fertilizers and food security boosting crops. So once you've separated out the water, what's actually happening now to produce fertilizer from this water?
00:14:24:09 - 00:14:48:01
Frank Rogalla
Yeah, we had various tests. We actually worked with partners in Sweden, with partners in Holland, with partners in Belgium. In each case, there was a new city being developed where they could reinvent a little bit the way buildings are built and therefore have separate pipes for yellow water or gray water or blown water and then stream you can treat separately so Blackwater can be transformed into an organic fertilizer.
00:14:48:07 - 00:15:16:21
Frank Rogalla
The other water I already mentioned is by itself a liquid fertilizer, and the green water is another resource we can use that we tested in each location a different approach, sometimes focusing on the organics, sometimes focusing on extracting and or putting the liquid into a more easy handle, a form of pellets, extracting from the urine, some nitrogen and phosphorus pellets that then the farmers or the gardeners could use on their field.
00:15:16:23 - 00:15:32:06
Abigail Acton
And and what's the uptake like? You mentioned these pilot projects. I mean, they sound I guess you feel that they went successfully and are is industry interested in this? Are you are you getting to the stage now where you could actually market this in any way or are we still in pilot project stage? Do you feel?
00:15:32:09 - 00:15:54:09
Frank Rogalla
Well as it is a radical change in the way people behave because you have to readapt your toilets and think a little bit differently how you actually take value out of your waste? It depends a lot on the infrastructure. Therefore, these apartments or these new buildings were built so that people would be enticed to separate the waste materials.
00:15:54:11 - 00:16:16:12
Frank Rogalla
And in those cases it was very successful. Obviously, it's easier to do in a new development and retrofitting existing building with new pipes. But in those new developments, often people come up with new ideas of how they can be more sustainable. There was a big uptake and people were very happy actually, to be able to contribute to a more sustainable solution.
00:16:16:14 - 00:16:34:08
Abigail Acton
Absolutely. You know, I can well imagine, but I take your point about it being easier to obviously to to set up in an environment where you're building from scratch with regards to the pilot projects that you did, could you give me an example of one of the pilot projects I'm interested in the pilot idea for Fertilizers. Where was that actually conducted and how many households were involved?
00:16:34:11 - 00:16:35:14
Abigail Acton
I mean, give me an idea.
00:16:35:16 - 00:17:03:00
Frank Rogalla
That hasn't worked. They built new blocks for about 400 apartments, so more than a thousand people. And those had these separate pipes. And in the cellar of those buildings, you had this little fertilizer factory where the waste material was then transformed into pellets. And those pellets are available in supermarkets to fertilize your garden. And of course, that's also new business, of course, to repackage and distribute these new products.
00:17:03:00 - 00:17:14:01
Frank Rogalla
But as I said before, you know, we want to avoid that. We have all this artificial synthetic fertilizer. And this is one way to recycle natural matter through your uses.
00:17:14:03 - 00:17:18:09
Abigail Acton
Yeah, I love the idea. Does anyone have any questions or observations to make to Frank? Yes, Tanya.
00:17:18:11 - 00:17:45:10
Tania Galindo
Yes, I find very interesting. Thanks, Frank, for these explanations. My question is, what are the main barriers that you have found developing this technology? For example, I thought the first thing is that is urine. And then this has for example, some other side products inside that you need to maybe filter or how do you take care of that and maybe any other big barrier that you find developing in this course.
00:17:45:12 - 00:18:08:18
Frank Rogalla
I know, right, Tanya? Because it's such a different concept from what we have been learning from the Romans 2000 years ago. You have to really think a little bit and see what regulations are there that actually hinder some of your ideas and also just the habits of people and the way architects are building their houses or the way cities are laid out with the wastewater pipes.
00:18:08:20 - 00:18:36:13
Frank Rogalla
Well, that would have to be rethought. And those are obviously the barriers to work upstream in the planning phase to make things different and then to convince people you're right that there are no dangerous substances. And if they are separate, then of course the hospital wastewater is different than a normal household, but wastewater. And you can also teach people not to mix certain toxic substances or medicine into the wastewater, which would create a problem downstream.
00:18:36:15 - 00:18:46:06
Frank Rogalla
So there's a whole education effort as well linked to that. But as we found, people are very cooperative, are very understanding and very interested to make their contribution.
00:18:46:08 - 00:19:01:19
Abigail Acton
I think we're all just becoming progressively more and more aware of the input and the footprint that our housing has on on the environment. Everyone's very much more taken up. I think not everyone, but quite a lot of people are more taken up with the idea of solar panels and alternative energy. And this is an extension, I think another dimension of that, that awareness.
00:19:01:19 - 00:19:29:01
Abigail Acton
Absolutely. Okay. Any other observations before I move on to Juan, because Juan is coming at this kind of concept from quite a different angle. And when I say angle, I really mean angle because we're here talking about the ground and Juan is now going to talk to us about way up here and looking back onto the earth and using remote sensing technologies and earth observation data to to work out how to boost crop yields and to to improve sustainability.
00:19:29:01 - 00:19:45:22
Abigail Acton
So, Juan, I'm going to turn to you. Your project was particularly looking as the clues in the name at Africa. Your project is called the AfriCultuRes Project, and it was focusing on the development of sustainable agriculture through, as I said, remote sensing such as satellite imagery. Can you tell us what new approach your project brings to the table?
00:19:45:22 - 00:19:50:05
Abigail Acton
Satellite imagery has been used for a while for agriculture. So what were you doing differently?
00:19:50:06 - 00:20:16:16
Juan Suarez
Thank you for that introduction. So do you know the situation So useful tool for monitoring what's going on in the ground? And it's true that it's been used for years in the field of food production and agriculture to monitor geos, to monitor what's going on, to get them to use of information that is very useful to feed models, do forecasting models, for example.
00:20:16:18 - 00:21:01:01
Juan Suarez
But we realized that climate change is affecting food production in Africa and elsewhere. So then we needed to integrate also this climate science within that equation or the solution for the enhancement of food security in in Africa. So we put together this well-known science coming from Earth observation that is contributing itself to food security together with this climate science, to get system of forecasting, for example, weather forecasting, the assessment of time in this new Year to provide means or guidance for adaptation to climate change.
00:21:01:07 - 00:21:48:01
Juan Suarez
But also we put in the equation crop models, soil science or other sciences that together and contributing to enhancement of food security in Africa because they were in the past, as you mentioned, working like alone or because collaborating, but not strongly doing that in Africa. So what we wanted is to put this all together, but not losing the point that this should be a juicer driven solution, meaning that we would also to put the users in the center, not just the science and the technology, but to understand their needs because they are the ones given the solution so far because this to people.
00:21:48:07 - 00:21:48:14
Abigail Acton
Okay.
00:21:48:15 - 00:22:05:01
Abigail Acton
Yes. Clearly harnessing these various elements builds up a much more detailed picture of what's happening. So I get your idea that you're bringing together a lot of different disciplines and a lot of different technologies in a way that maybe hasn't quite happened before, But can you give us some examples of what that actually means to a farmer somewhere in Africa?
00:22:05:01 - 00:22:09:16
Abigail Acton
Can you be more specific about the actual practical results of this on the ground?
00:22:09:21 - 00:22:51:13
Juan Suarez
Sure. One of the results from the project is that really what we wanted to avoid to do, like a theoretical approach, is to what can be done, but rather we wanted to to have some use cases that use adjuvants. So we in the beginning had our own ideas. We have the background on science and technology. That's why we set up a number of use cases in the in the countries we work at in And for example, in Rwanda, we collaborated with the University of Blender to improve their national Agriculture Insurance scheme.
00:22:51:15 - 00:23:17:16
Juan Suarez
That this meeting of health observation of geospatial data for the assessment of claims to this is in some cases some very insecure, some there are floods or whatever, but is costly going to the ground to assess what happened. So we are supporting the Ministry of Agriculture on this through the another case in Kenya is for the cattle value chain.
00:23:17:16 - 00:23:52:10
Juan Suarez
We are not talking just the smallholder farmers but also the farmer that you see in the in the commercial for the commercial markets. So in the case of Kenya, we are providing information on the condition of the Bukavu value chain in the Murang'a County. So then the government is able to to get the local government and the Farmers Association are able to get aid information of what can they expect out from the go in system and how much they can put and trade in the international market.
00:23:52:15 - 00:24:02:01
Abigail Acton
So what's the information you're giving them in real time that helps them to know that? Are you telling them, for example, what how much how much precipitation they can anticipate through modeling?
00:24:02:02 - 00:24:33:03
Juan Suarez
Or we are providing information and the potential it can be. So these agro climatic variables, some temperatures, precipitation, but the cause convertibles coming from in many cases from weather stations in the air on site, we are providing information on the condition of the trees, how much they can be stressed due to these conditions. The weather, the heat of the drought of whatever is is happening.
00:24:33:05 - 00:24:38:15
Abigail Acton
Is that gained through modeling, previous modeling or is that I mean, for example, the condition of the trees?
00:24:38:17 - 00:24:39:14
Juan Suarez
It's a combination.
00:24:39:15 - 00:24:53:17
Abigail Acton
Combination, something that's quite interesting. You know, you've got an avocado tree and you want to know how hard you can push it in order to get a certain amount of yield. What data are you using that you can give the farmer to tell them how how healthy the tree is or how stressed the tree is.
00:24:53:19 - 00:25:33:10
Juan Suarez
In that case. In the case of a on the stress, we are actually combining models because these are models that one alone with other key medical variables, but also we are combining these with data conservation. So through satellite imagery, just imagine a curve. So this is the normal, the normal, the normal. And then if we see the K on this curve is when something is happening and whether it can be due to biotic stress or like a pest or a disease or it can be something that is not really biotic, but due to the the climate, for example.
00:25:33:12 - 00:25:37:03
Juan Suarez
So then we point out something is happening there, for example.
00:25:37:06 - 00:25:41:10
Abigail Acton
Okay, fantastic. And that gives them the ability to anticipate and to plan accordingly.
00:25:41:14 - 00:25:41:24
Juan Suarez
Yeah.
00:25:42:01 - 00:26:00:08
Abigail Acton
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. First thing I think this is this is brilliant because, I mean, it takes up the whole notion of forecasting really upper level and particularly in an environment or in countries which are, you know, not necessarily benefiting from from basic forecasting that you're going from almost no forecasting at all to something that's extremely high tech and multifaceted.
00:26:00:13 - 00:26:10:03
Abigail Acton
I think it's wonderful when I would like to ask you, why did you get involved in this? What was it that brought you into into this concept, this idea.
00:26:10:05 - 00:26:38:04
Juan Suarez
From the beginning that felt that if this project was about people and livelihoods, right? So it was about the not the counting trees or whatever. So it's about the health and the people and the well-being of people that is producing, in some cases, to trading in harvest local tops. But most cases in the case of smallholder farmers in Africa is to support their families.
00:26:38:04 - 00:27:10:00
Juan Suarez
So that's the world we wanted to I that's why I wanted to be involved in this, to provide something to someone, because at the end we will be we are going to aggregators who provide something to someone who's able to at the end delivering the on the ground to support these people are making the decisions and these people in the caring at the end on science or technology in the sense of satellite, the satellite is flying the bow at the nose.
00:27:10:02 - 00:27:31:10
Juan Suarez
So it is square kilometers of robots or whatever. So they wanted to know how to get this information, know when to plan or early warning, and that drove the onset of approach or is time for harvest. It is time to this kind of that these teams that we wanted to leverage.
00:27:31:14 - 00:27:52:12
Abigail Acton
Yeah yeah no absolutely absolutely as a practical application of high tech. Yes indeed. That's super. Well, I want to thank the three of you very much because you're all doing work that is very interesting and coming at the notion of basically improving food security and enhancing soil health, something that has in the past got a bit neglected in the biodiversity in the ground as well under our feet.
00:27:52:14 - 00:28:00:15
Abigail Acton
So thank you very much for all the work that you're doing on that and related areas and for sharing your time with me today. Thank you and thanks everyone.
00:28:00:17 - 00:28:04:00
Frank Rogalla
Thank you. It's a pleasure in there. And thank you so much.
00:28:04:02 - 00:28:27:11
Abigail Acton
You're very welcome. Bye bye. This goes if you've enjoyed this podcast and are interested in the latest scientific research coming out of the EU, take a look at previous episodes available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or find us on Anker. Follow us to stay abreast of what's coming up. Are you curious about what other EU funded projects are doing in the area of soil health, farming, resource management and food security?
00:28:27:11 - 00:28:50:14
Abigail Acton
The Cordis website will give you an insight into the results of projects funded by the Horizon 2020 program that are working in this area. The website has articles and interviews that explore the results of research being conducted in a very broad range of domains and subjects from cause to chaos theory. There's something there for you. Maybe you're interested in a project, or we'd like to apply for funding, see what others are doing in your domain.
00:28:50:20 - 00:29:06:21
Abigail Acton
So come and check out the research that's revealing what makes our world tick. We're always happy to hear from you. Drop us a line. Editorial at cordis dot Europa dot EU. Until next time week.
This is an AI transcription.
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:16:03
Abigail Acton
This is CORDIScovery.
00:00:16:05 - 00:00:44:02
Abigail Acton
Hello and welcome to this episode of CORDIScovery With me, Abigail Acton. From Satellites observing the Earth to Roots and the microbes that surround them. Today we're looking at soil and how our food security depends on its health. Soil is so much more than the dirt beneath our feet. It's a fragile resource which is degraded in many parts of the world and the rapidly growing global population's demand for food, fiber and soil derived materials is ramping up the pressure.
00:00:44:04 - 00:01:11:09
Abigail Acton
How can we feed people while rethinking our dependance on chemical fertilizers? Can we process wastewater in a way that can benefit farmers and boost crop yields? And what can the structure of a plant's roots tell us about what's going on underground? Can that knowledge lead to a reduction in the need for nitrogen based fertilizers? How can remote sensing and earth observation data help us to improve our use of natural resources to improve food security?
00:01:11:11 - 00:01:34:04
Abigail Acton
Today's crop of guests has been funded by the Horizon 2020 program. They are here to help us understand how waste, fertilizer, soil protection and remote monitoring all interconnect. A researcher at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich, Tania Galindo. Castaneda's focus is on how the root anatomy and architecture of maize affects the impact that microbes in the soil have on the plant.
00:01:34:05 - 00:01:34:22
Abigail Acton
Hello, Tanya.
00:01:34:24 - 00:01:38:09
Tania Galindo
Hello, Abigail and everyone. Thanks for this invitation.
00:01:38:11 - 00:01:58:13
Abigail Acton
You're very welcome. Frank Rogalla is director of innovation at Aqualia, a private provider of water services supplying 45 million people in 17 countries. His focus is on not wasting one drop of water, to which end, he fuels his call with waste water. Frank is interested in recovering fertilizers to grow food and avoid pollution. Welcome, Frank.
00:01:58:15 - 00:01:59:23
Frank Rogalla
Abigail. Hello.
00:02:00:00 - 00:02:13:06
Abigail Acton
Juan Suarez is looking at how to make the most of Earth observation technologies, such as satellite imagery to improve food security and sustainable development. Juan is a senior manager at the Spanish company GMV. Welcome, Juan.
00:02:13:11 - 00:02:16:09
Juan Suarez
Hello again, everyone.
00:02:16:11 - 00:02:34:20
Abigail Acton
This is what causes a plant to flourish. Once planted out of the lab and into a field. Tanya, your ROOTPHENOBIOME project looked at maize and how the roots interact with the community of microbes in the soil. I know that you're interested in bio fertilizers. What does that word mean exactly? And why are they important? Do you feel.
00:02:35:01 - 00:02:58:20
Tania Galindo
Okay, so bio fertilizers, are preparations containing living microbial sense which make nutrients available to plants. They are important because they are profiling as an alternative to chemical fertilization in agricultural fields. Therefore, their use is being researched actively right now.
00:02:59:00 - 00:03:01:12
Abigail Acton
All these used already in other countries?
00:03:01:16 - 00:03:23:22
Tania Galindo
Yes, they have been in used for quite a while in South America, for example, in Brazil. They have a whole program by the government where they select microbes to produce these bio fertilizers. And even there they have proposed that 25% of chemical fertilization can be replaced by these bio fertilizers.
00:03:23:24 - 00:03:28:00
Abigail Acton
And how does one decide what microbes are going to be helpful to the plant?
00:03:28:02 - 00:03:52:17
Tania Galindo
Well, microbes can in the case of nitrogen, for example, they can fix nitrogen, which is very abundant in the air. And they some of them not all or not all by fertilizers, but some by fertilizers or some microbes in the soil. They have their metabolic capability to obtain nitrogen from the air and make it available in in the form of ammonium to plants.
00:03:52:23 - 00:04:03:18
Abigail Acton
that's wonderful. So instead of adding this on externally as a compound in a fertilizer, in fact, we can actually just let the natural process do its work and provide the plants with the same nutrients that way.
00:04:03:19 - 00:04:18:02
Tania Galindo
Exactly. Yes, this can happen naturally, but we can also favor hydrates of this process by selecting specific strains that have improved capabilities to do this. For example, nitrogen fixation.
00:04:18:03 - 00:04:24:03
Abigail Acton
Fantastic. And while we're all doing that all the time right now, what's holding us up from actually using these more?
00:04:24:05 - 00:04:55:20
Tania Galindo
Yet the way fertilizers are produced and used is not so predictable. As with chemical fertilizers, for example, when they make a new nitrogen fertilization, they know that they will use these amount, for example, 100 kilos per hectare, and they will get a certain amount of grain in the case of maize. But for bio fertilizers we need to research much more to to have this kind of equivalences between what we apply and what we obtain.
00:04:55:22 - 00:05:06:24
Tania Galindo
So to ensure that the bio fertilizers work, we need more research and I think is just the stage in which the research is in most of the maize producing countries, for example.
00:05:07:02 - 00:05:28:14
Abigail Acton
And of course, this is what you're looking at. So one of the things that's interesting you is, is that the structure or the architecture of the root systems of maize has an impact on how these microbes respond to the plant. So can you tell me a little bit more about that? And perhaps also, is that one of the reasons why it seems to work quite well in laboratories and sometimes not quite so effectively in the field?
00:05:28:14 - 00:05:30:00
Abigail Acton
Tell me a little bit about that.
00:05:30:02 - 00:05:54:22
Tania Galindo
Yes, exactly. So one of the huge black boxes that we have in developing and using microbes in agriculture is trying to understand the biology of these microbes and how they connect and how they associate with their roots, because usually via fertilizers are produced in the lab, then they are tested also in the lab, then in the greenhouse, where the roots are not really growing in the way they will grow in the field.
00:05:54:24 - 00:06:26:02
Tania Galindo
So we don't know exactly how in the field these different shapes are fruit, like architectural or anatomical, which refers to the internal distribution of tissues. How these different characteristics interact with microbes in real conditions. So we need to understand better how these processes, how these architecture and anatomy influence microbes and I think this this could help make the link between what we do in the lab and in the bioreactor when they produce this at an industrial scale.
00:06:26:04 - 00:06:28:22
Tania Galindo
And what happens in the field.
00:06:28:24 - 00:06:44:07
Abigail Acton
Is it possible that some of the microbes are already present in the soil in the natural environment, are having a kind of a I presume they must have some sort of connection impact interaction with the microbes that are being taken out of laboratory scenarios to be used as fertilizers.
00:06:44:08 - 00:07:07:00
Tania Galindo
Yes, this is very likely possible. I think this we also need to understand, because when the plant starts growing, it creates some microbiome in the rhizosphere and in on the roots and inside the roots. And then we don't know if we apply an external microbe, if it will have any impact in the soil surrounding the rotary and on the plant.
00:07:07:02 - 00:07:27:14
Tania Galindo
So, yes, there are microbes that are already doing a lot of nutrient transformation for the plant. But if we include a next external microbe that we have selective by with our methods, yes, we do know what happens. This is also a part of the fact of the black box that we have in fertilizers.
00:07:27:16 - 00:07:49:12
Abigail Acton
It sounds like you have a a nice long path of research in front of you. A good, strong career in research in this area. But it's, you know, lots of interesting questions to answer. Absolutely. But obviously, it's very important because you are talking here about a way of boosting crop yields and in a way that actually has much less of a harsh environmental impact.
00:07:49:13 - 00:08:16:23
Tania Galindo
Yes, exactly. Because with the chemical fertilizers, we farmers to obtain the amounts of grain that they need to make it profitable or to improve their welfare, they need to apply excess of chemical fertilizers. Therefore, this is creating pollution and economic losses, of course. So, yes, it will be important to, as an alternative to make use of the biological research studies already in the soil.
00:08:17:04 - 00:08:36:15
Abigail Acton
Science that are targeted for a particular goal for Very interesting. Thank you very much. And I think also probably good for soil health, I would imagine, because you're not introducing a large amount of chemicals like nitrogen phosphates, etc., you are actually going with the communities that are already living in the soil. So I would imagine it's better for soil health, do you think?
00:08:36:15 - 00:09:09:03
Tania Galindo
Yes. When farmers supply chemical fertilizers in excess, they change the chemical balance of the soil and also it creates pollution, as I said, the nitrogen system. And sometimes if it is lost to the watersheds. So, yes, it's is better to have a reduction, at least in inputs, if this is possible. Yes. But something that I also wanted to say is that plants also have their adaptations to this.
00:09:09:03 - 00:09:32:24
Tania Galindo
And we do know how the already in place plant adaptation that they come with the genetics, with their plant breeding, with their seats are interacting with these microbes. So this is also a black box that we we need to sell plants and already have some adaptations to use, perhaps less available nutrients. And if we are applying micros, maybe we have synergies or trade out Sweden.
00:09:33:01 - 00:09:48:09
Abigail Acton
And if you were to project yourself into the future, shall we say ten years. So it's a little bit ahead, not massively ahead. Why would you like to see this technology that you're working on be? In other words, at what stage do you think we could imagine it would be in ten years time?
00:09:48:15 - 00:10:11:22
Tania Galindo
I would like to see a technology that is combining plant lettuce or cultivars with adapted routes to obtain nutrients more efficiently from the soil. So with the specific architectures and anatomies, but also with an opulent composed perhaps by a consortium of microbes or by certain strains, what.
00:10:11:22 - 00:10:13:09
Abigail Acton
Do you mean by an Oakland?
00:10:13:11 - 00:10:45:21
Tania Galindo
Inoculations are bacteria, bio fertilizers, let's say our pellets containing bacteria, living bacteria or fungi. That happens in this case to make nutrients more available. So we have to imagine not only plants that are selected because they have adapted routes, but also because they favor synergistic associations with soil microbes and that require less fertilization, less chemical fertilization, and therefore a reduction in environmental impact.
00:10:45:24 - 00:11:08:23
Abigail Acton
Excellent. Thank you. Well, I mean, we have to hope that it actually is something that we do see in the next ten years or so. That would be excellent. Thank you very, very much. That's super. Well, I'd like to stay on the subject of enriching the soil naturally or artificially. And I'm going to turn to Frank here because Frank, the Run4Life project focused on processing wastewater in the most effective way possible, including the recovery of nutrients that can be used as fertilizers.
00:11:09:00 - 00:11:32:01
Abigail Acton
So we've just been considering the idea of plants using the microbes in the soil to actually maximize the uptake of nutrients. But here we're actually thinking now about how if we do, while Tanya does her fantastic work, continue to need classical fertilizers, what are the best ways to get them? So what is the gap in the current way that we deal with wastewater that motivated you to try and innovate the process?
00:11:32:01 - 00:11:34:07
Abigail Acton
What was what was something that you felt was missing?
00:11:34:11 - 00:12:01:10
Frank Rogalla
Well, if you think about it today, the infrastructure we have, we use a lot of clean water to wash away our waste. And the waste is, in fact, the resource. There is a lot of fertilizer in urine and other human waste and also in kitchen waste. So we can recover nitrogen and phosphorus from the waste material instead of flushing it all down the drain to some wastewater treatment plant far away where it's very, very difficult to recover and all that with clean water.
00:12:01:10 - 00:12:11:17
Frank Rogalla
We at the same time waste the resource and contaminate the clean water that is drinking water that could be used much more efficiently if it wasn't just to transport waste.
00:12:11:19 - 00:12:29:12
Abigail Acton
I like the idea. We've talked about this obviously beforehand. I like the idea that you had about the notion of separating out wastewater rather like we separate our own sort of hard waste streams for recycling our plastic and our paper and our whatever. The idea that in fact that with wastewater, we should be separating it out more, more effectively as well.
00:12:29:14 - 00:12:53:14
Frank Rogalla
That that was the inspiration, obviously, in waste. In order to recycle it efficiently, you need to separate the glass and the paper and the plastic. And the same we can do with water. We can separate yellow water and groundwater and water and then reuse each resource the way it could easily be because the yellow water, 90% of the nitrogen that each person produces is concentrated in only one liter of urine or two per day.
00:12:53:16 - 00:13:13:04
Frank Rogalla
Instead of flushing it down with 200 liters of clean water as normal toilets do, we could recover this concentrated liquid fertilizer. And the same goes for great water, as easy to reuse as less contaminated. If we don't mix it all together and we can then reuse it to flush toilets, wash cars or whatever object that we have now.
00:13:13:08 - 00:13:23:22
Abigail Acton
So something that's much more targeted. After all, most of our infrastructure is is based on on technology that was pretty much exploited by the Romans. We haven't really gotten much more up to date, have we?
00:13:23:24 - 00:13:42:14
Frank Rogalla
Yeah. The Romans obviously invented that to to bring water from far away with aqueducts to the cities and then use it to flush out the waste as fast as possible into the cloaca maxima or whatever river was close by. And that was maybe sustainable when you had a few hundred or a thousand people, but not in a city of a million.
00:13:42:16 - 00:14:11:05
Frank Rogalla
And therefore we now pump all this waste out to a faraway place where it creates a new problem of contaminating wastewater and contaminating rivers and producing sludge that nobody wants. And we really wanted to avoid this and recover the nutrients at a place where they can be used inside of the households, where you can use the fertilizer for gardening or can reuse your water for washing locally rather than when you have it far away in a wastewater treatment plant.
00:14:11:07 - 00:14:24:07
Abigail Acton
Indeed. And so let's explore the notion of the fertilizers, because we're interested today in soil, soil, health, fertilizers and food security boosting crops. So once you've separated out the water, what's actually happening now to produce fertilizer from this water?
00:14:24:09 - 00:14:48:01
Frank Rogalla
Yeah, we had various tests. We actually worked with partners in Sweden, with partners in Holland, with partners in Belgium. In each case, there was a new city being developed where they could reinvent a little bit the way buildings are built and therefore have separate pipes for yellow water or gray water or blown water and then stream you can treat separately so Blackwater can be transformed into an organic fertilizer.
00:14:48:07 - 00:15:16:21
Frank Rogalla
The other water I already mentioned is by itself a liquid fertilizer, and the green water is another resource we can use that we tested in each location a different approach, sometimes focusing on the organics, sometimes focusing on extracting and or putting the liquid into a more easy handle, a form of pellets, extracting from the urine, some nitrogen and phosphorus pellets that then the farmers or the gardeners could use on their field.
00:15:16:23 - 00:15:32:06
Abigail Acton
And and what's the uptake like? You mentioned these pilot projects. I mean, they sound I guess you feel that they went successfully and are is industry interested in this? Are you are you getting to the stage now where you could actually market this in any way or are we still in pilot project stage? Do you feel?
00:15:32:09 - 00:15:54:09
Frank Rogalla
Well as it is a radical change in the way people behave because you have to readapt your toilets and think a little bit differently how you actually take value out of your waste? It depends a lot on the infrastructure. Therefore, these apartments or these new buildings were built so that people would be enticed to separate the waste materials.
00:15:54:11 - 00:16:16:12
Frank Rogalla
And in those cases it was very successful. Obviously, it's easier to do in a new development and retrofitting existing building with new pipes. But in those new developments, often people come up with new ideas of how they can be more sustainable. There was a big uptake and people were very happy actually, to be able to contribute to a more sustainable solution.
00:16:16:14 - 00:16:34:08
Abigail Acton
Absolutely. You know, I can well imagine, but I take your point about it being easier to obviously to to set up in an environment where you're building from scratch with regards to the pilot projects that you did, could you give me an example of one of the pilot projects I'm interested in the pilot idea for Fertilizers. Where was that actually conducted and how many households were involved?
00:16:34:11 - 00:16:35:14
Abigail Acton
I mean, give me an idea.
00:16:35:16 - 00:17:03:00
Frank Rogalla
That hasn't worked. They built new blocks for about 400 apartments, so more than a thousand people. And those had these separate pipes. And in the cellar of those buildings, you had this little fertilizer factory where the waste material was then transformed into pellets. And those pellets are available in supermarkets to fertilize your garden. And of course, that's also new business, of course, to repackage and distribute these new products.
00:17:03:00 - 00:17:14:01
Frank Rogalla
But as I said before, you know, we want to avoid that. We have all this artificial synthetic fertilizer. And this is one way to recycle natural matter through your uses.
00:17:14:03 - 00:17:18:09
Abigail Acton
Yeah, I love the idea. Does anyone have any questions or observations to make to Frank? Yes, Tanya.
00:17:18:11 - 00:17:45:10
Tania Galindo
Yes, I find very interesting. Thanks, Frank, for these explanations. My question is, what are the main barriers that you have found developing this technology? For example, I thought the first thing is that is urine. And then this has for example, some other side products inside that you need to maybe filter or how do you take care of that and maybe any other big barrier that you find developing in this course.
00:17:45:12 - 00:18:08:18
Frank Rogalla
I know, right, Tanya? Because it's such a different concept from what we have been learning from the Romans 2000 years ago. You have to really think a little bit and see what regulations are there that actually hinder some of your ideas and also just the habits of people and the way architects are building their houses or the way cities are laid out with the wastewater pipes.
00:18:08:20 - 00:18:36:13
Frank Rogalla
Well, that would have to be rethought. And those are obviously the barriers to work upstream in the planning phase to make things different and then to convince people you're right that there are no dangerous substances. And if they are separate, then of course the hospital wastewater is different than a normal household, but wastewater. And you can also teach people not to mix certain toxic substances or medicine into the wastewater, which would create a problem downstream.
00:18:36:15 - 00:18:46:06
Frank Rogalla
So there's a whole education effort as well linked to that. But as we found, people are very cooperative, are very understanding and very interested to make their contribution.
00:18:46:08 - 00:19:01:19
Abigail Acton
I think we're all just becoming progressively more and more aware of the input and the footprint that our housing has on on the environment. Everyone's very much more taken up. I think not everyone, but quite a lot of people are more taken up with the idea of solar panels and alternative energy. And this is an extension, I think another dimension of that, that awareness.
00:19:01:19 - 00:19:29:01
Abigail Acton
Absolutely. Okay. Any other observations before I move on to Juan, because Juan is coming at this kind of concept from quite a different angle. And when I say angle, I really mean angle because we're here talking about the ground and Juan is now going to talk to us about way up here and looking back onto the earth and using remote sensing technologies and earth observation data to to work out how to boost crop yields and to to improve sustainability.
00:19:29:01 - 00:19:45:22
Abigail Acton
So, Juan, I'm going to turn to you. Your project was particularly looking as the clues in the name at Africa. Your project is called the AfriCultuRes Project, and it was focusing on the development of sustainable agriculture through, as I said, remote sensing such as satellite imagery. Can you tell us what new approach your project brings to the table?
00:19:45:22 - 00:19:50:05
Abigail Acton
Satellite imagery has been used for a while for agriculture. So what were you doing differently?
00:19:50:06 - 00:20:16:16
Juan Suarez
Thank you for that introduction. So do you know the situation So useful tool for monitoring what's going on in the ground? And it's true that it's been used for years in the field of food production and agriculture to monitor geos, to monitor what's going on, to get them to use of information that is very useful to feed models, do forecasting models, for example.
00:20:16:18 - 00:21:01:01
Juan Suarez
But we realized that climate change is affecting food production in Africa and elsewhere. So then we needed to integrate also this climate science within that equation or the solution for the enhancement of food security in in Africa. So we put together this well-known science coming from Earth observation that is contributing itself to food security together with this climate science, to get system of forecasting, for example, weather forecasting, the assessment of time in this new Year to provide means or guidance for adaptation to climate change.
00:21:01:07 - 00:21:48:01
Juan Suarez
But also we put in the equation crop models, soil science or other sciences that together and contributing to enhancement of food security in Africa because they were in the past, as you mentioned, working like alone or because collaborating, but not strongly doing that in Africa. So what we wanted is to put this all together, but not losing the point that this should be a juicer driven solution, meaning that we would also to put the users in the center, not just the science and the technology, but to understand their needs because they are the ones given the solution so far because this to people.
00:21:48:07 - 00:21:48:14
Abigail Acton
Okay.
00:21:48:15 - 00:22:05:01
Abigail Acton
Yes. Clearly harnessing these various elements builds up a much more detailed picture of what's happening. So I get your idea that you're bringing together a lot of different disciplines and a lot of different technologies in a way that maybe hasn't quite happened before, But can you give us some examples of what that actually means to a farmer somewhere in Africa?
00:22:05:01 - 00:22:09:16
Abigail Acton
Can you be more specific about the actual practical results of this on the ground?
00:22:09:21 - 00:22:51:13
Juan Suarez
Sure. One of the results from the project is that really what we wanted to avoid to do, like a theoretical approach, is to what can be done, but rather we wanted to to have some use cases that use adjuvants. So we in the beginning had our own ideas. We have the background on science and technology. That's why we set up a number of use cases in the in the countries we work at in And for example, in Rwanda, we collaborated with the University of Blender to improve their national Agriculture Insurance scheme.
00:22:51:15 - 00:23:17:16
Juan Suarez
That this meeting of health observation of geospatial data for the assessment of claims to this is in some cases some very insecure, some there are floods or whatever, but is costly going to the ground to assess what happened. So we are supporting the Ministry of Agriculture on this through the another case in Kenya is for the cattle value chain.
00:23:17:16 - 00:23:52:10
Juan Suarez
We are not talking just the smallholder farmers but also the farmer that you see in the in the commercial for the commercial markets. So in the case of Kenya, we are providing information on the condition of the Bukavu value chain in the Murang'a County. So then the government is able to to get the local government and the Farmers Association are able to get aid information of what can they expect out from the go in system and how much they can put and trade in the international market.
00:23:52:15 - 00:24:02:01
Abigail Acton
So what's the information you're giving them in real time that helps them to know that? Are you telling them, for example, what how much how much precipitation they can anticipate through modeling?
00:24:02:02 - 00:24:33:03
Juan Suarez
Or we are providing information and the potential it can be. So these agro climatic variables, some temperatures, precipitation, but the cause convertibles coming from in many cases from weather stations in the air on site, we are providing information on the condition of the trees, how much they can be stressed due to these conditions. The weather, the heat of the drought of whatever is is happening.
00:24:33:05 - 00:24:38:15
Abigail Acton
Is that gained through modeling, previous modeling or is that I mean, for example, the condition of the trees?
00:24:38:17 - 00:24:39:14
Juan Suarez
It's a combination.
00:24:39:15 - 00:24:53:17
Abigail Acton
Combination, something that's quite interesting. You know, you've got an avocado tree and you want to know how hard you can push it in order to get a certain amount of yield. What data are you using that you can give the farmer to tell them how how healthy the tree is or how stressed the tree is.
00:24:53:19 - 00:25:33:10
Juan Suarez
In that case. In the case of a on the stress, we are actually combining models because these are models that one alone with other key medical variables, but also we are combining these with data conservation. So through satellite imagery, just imagine a curve. So this is the normal, the normal, the normal. And then if we see the K on this curve is when something is happening and whether it can be due to biotic stress or like a pest or a disease or it can be something that is not really biotic, but due to the the climate, for example.
00:25:33:12 - 00:25:37:03
Juan Suarez
So then we point out something is happening there, for example.
00:25:37:06 - 00:25:41:10
Abigail Acton
Okay, fantastic. And that gives them the ability to anticipate and to plan accordingly.
00:25:41:14 - 00:25:41:24
Juan Suarez
Yeah.
00:25:42:01 - 00:26:00:08
Abigail Acton
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. First thing I think this is this is brilliant because, I mean, it takes up the whole notion of forecasting really upper level and particularly in an environment or in countries which are, you know, not necessarily benefiting from from basic forecasting that you're going from almost no forecasting at all to something that's extremely high tech and multifaceted.
00:26:00:13 - 00:26:10:03
Abigail Acton
I think it's wonderful when I would like to ask you, why did you get involved in this? What was it that brought you into into this concept, this idea.
00:26:10:05 - 00:26:38:04
Juan Suarez
From the beginning that felt that if this project was about people and livelihoods, right? So it was about the not the counting trees or whatever. So it's about the health and the people and the well-being of people that is producing, in some cases, to trading in harvest local tops. But most cases in the case of smallholder farmers in Africa is to support their families.
00:26:38:04 - 00:27:10:00
Juan Suarez
So that's the world we wanted to I that's why I wanted to be involved in this, to provide something to someone, because at the end we will be we are going to aggregators who provide something to someone who's able to at the end delivering the on the ground to support these people are making the decisions and these people in the caring at the end on science or technology in the sense of satellite, the satellite is flying the bow at the nose.
00:27:10:02 - 00:27:31:10
Juan Suarez
So it is square kilometers of robots or whatever. So they wanted to know how to get this information, know when to plan or early warning, and that drove the onset of approach or is time for harvest. It is time to this kind of that these teams that we wanted to leverage.
00:27:31:14 - 00:27:52:12
Abigail Acton
Yeah yeah no absolutely absolutely as a practical application of high tech. Yes indeed. That's super. Well, I want to thank the three of you very much because you're all doing work that is very interesting and coming at the notion of basically improving food security and enhancing soil health, something that has in the past got a bit neglected in the biodiversity in the ground as well under our feet.
00:27:52:14 - 00:28:00:15
Abigail Acton
So thank you very much for all the work that you're doing on that and related areas and for sharing your time with me today. Thank you and thanks everyone.
00:28:00:17 - 00:28:04:00
Frank Rogalla
Thank you. It's a pleasure in there. And thank you so much.
00:28:04:02 - 00:28:27:11
Abigail Acton
You're very welcome. Bye bye. This goes if you've enjoyed this podcast and are interested in the latest scientific research coming out of the EU, take a look at previous episodes available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or find us on Anker. Follow us to stay abreast of what's coming up. Are you curious about what other EU funded projects are doing in the area of soil health, farming, resource management and food security?
00:28:27:11 - 00:28:50:14
Abigail Acton
The Cordis website will give you an insight into the results of projects funded by the Horizon 2020 program that are working in this area. The website has articles and interviews that explore the results of research being conducted in a very broad range of domains and subjects from cause to chaos theory. There's something there for you. Maybe you're interested in a project, or we'd like to apply for funding, see what others are doing in your domain.
00:28:50:20 - 00:29:06:21
Abigail Acton
So come and check out the research that's revealing what makes our world tick. We're always happy to hear from you. Drop us a line. Editorial at cordis dot Europa dot EU. Until next time week.
Informacje i pomysły
Gleba to nie tylko grunt pod naszymi stopami. To niezwykle cenny i wrażliwy zasób, który w wielu częściach świata ulega degradacji. Gwałtownie rosnące zapotrzebowanie ludności świata na żywność, włókna i materiały, w których produkcji gleba odgrywa istotną rolę, zwiększa presję i rodzi ważne pytania. W tym odcinku staramy się znaleźć na nie odpowiedzi. Jak możemy karmić ludzi i jednocześnie odchodzić od zależności od nawozów chemicznych? Czy możemy przetwarzać ścieki tak, aby przynieść korzyści rolnikom i zwiększyć plony? I co struktura korzeni roślin mówi o tym, co dzieje się pod ziemią? Czy wiedza ta może pomóc w zmniejszeniu zapotrzebowania na nawozy azotowe? W jaki sposób teledetekcja i dane z obserwacji Ziemi mogą pomóc w lepszym wykorzystaniu zasobów naturalnych w celu zwiększenia bezpieczeństwa żywności? Nasi goście, których projekty zostały sfinansowane w ramach programu „Horyzont 2020”, tłumaczą zależności między odpadami, nawozami, ochroną gleby i zdalnym monitoringiem: Tania Galindo-Castañeda, badaczka ze szwajcarskiej Politechniki Federalnej w Zurychu, była koordynatorką projektu ROOTPHENOBIOME. W projekcie tym badano, jak anatomia i budowa korzenia kukurydzy wpływają na oddziaływania mikroorganizmów w glebie na roślinę. Frank Rogalla jest dyrektorem ds. innowacji w prywatnej firmie Aqualia, która zajmuje się dostarczaniem usług wodnych 45 milionom ludzi w 17 krajach. Nie chce marnować ani jednej kropli wody, a swój samochód tankuje ściekami. W ramach projektu RUN4LIFE Frank badał sposoby odzyskiwania ze ścieków związków chemicznych, które następnie wykorzystano do nawożenia upraw i dzięki czemu zmniejszano emisję zanieczyszczeń. Juan Suarez sprawdzał, jak wykorzystać technologie obserwacji Ziemi, takie jak zdjęcia satelitarne, do poprawy bezpieczeństwa żywności i zrównoważonego rozwoju w ramach projektu AfriCultuReS. Juan jest starszym kierownikiem w hiszpańskiej firmie GMV.
Czekamy na Wasze opinie!
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Słowa kluczowe
CORDIScovery, CORDIS, ROOTPHENOBIOME, RUN4LIFE, AfriCultuReS, gleba, teledetekcja, obserwacja Ziemi, korzenie, mikroorganizmy, woda, ścieki, nawozy, bezpieczeństwo żywności